V Magazine January 2010 = The Plus Size Issue

crystal renn in a bikini

V Magazine will dedicate their January 2010 issue to plus-size models – this comes after Glamour Magazine featured “plus-size” models in in September (Lizzie Miller photo) and in their November “These Bodies are Beautiful at Every Size” article – see photo below.

“Big, little, pint-size, plus-size-every body is beautiful. And this issue is out to prove it” says editor-in-chief Steven Gan.

Surprisingly, Chanel designer Karl Lagerfeld agreed to photograph the plus-size beauties (including Crystal Renn and burlesque dancer Miss Dirty Martini), even though in the past, he said things like…

“These are fat mummies sitting with their bags of crisps in front of the television, saying that thin models are ugly”

“No one wants to see round women.”

What do you guys think of this initiative? And of course: how do you like Crystal’s bikini body?

naked plus-size models

From far left: Crystal Renn, Amy Lemons, Ashley Graham, Kate Dillon, Anansa Sims and Jennie Runk. Bottom Center: Lizzie Miller.

Incoming search terms:

Jennie Runk topless, jennie runk naked

159 thoughts on “V Magazine January 2010 = The Plus Size Issue”

  1. Wow! Crystal looks really beautiful! Not chubby or fat as some of you will say, but she’s really curvy! Curves doesn’t include round belly – which apparently Crystal doesn’t have (photoshop or just her body type)! As curvy girl myself, I really like seeing curvy women in entertainment! 😉 Come on, Karl, “These are fat mummies sitting with their bags of crisps in front of the television, saying that thin models are ugly” – yes, we like sitting in front of TV with a bag of crisps. And it shows we’re HUMAN – not robots, not anorexic THIN models… Who cares what we eat, as long as we’re happy! And even skinny women don’t like watching skinny women ( 😀 ) because this is abnormal… How can you look at a skinny-figured woman and think: “she’s a woman” instead of thinking “she’s a kid”. HAHAHAHA. I can’t wait until the world starts showing how a real woman has to look like….
    By the way, those girls in the photoshoot look fantastic! I can’t imagine that someone could name them as “fat”! They’re NORMAL! :]

    • “who cares what we eat as long as we’re happy”? — won’t your family and friends care when you die of heart disease from all that grease clogging your arteries?
      Either extreme — starving yourself and not exercising, or eating too much and not exercising (get the idea?) — is unhealthy. People need to exercise (both weights/resistance training and cardio) to build strong muscles and a strong healthy heart. The women in this photograph do not look like they exercise at all.. what you call normal or healthy to me looks like too much excess body fat.
      And what’s wrong with looking like a kid? I think that’s a big compliment! Who doesn’t want to stay young forever? Why do you think they invented all these stupid things like botox/plastic surgery/etc.? If people would just exercise more and eat healthy, naturally low-calorie foods (fruits and vegetables), and burn more than they consume, they would lose their excess body fat and look young again!

      • first, i don’t think that daisy by saying “who cares what we eat as long as we are happy” means that we should eat all the unhealthy food we find but just eat normally and don’t feel like we have to starve ourselves…so i don’t see the connection with getting a heart disease and stuff…

        second, you don’t need to exercise like that to be healthy…1 hour walking fast a day is more than enough. i’m not saying that weights and cardio training are bad calls but the fact is that if we are talking about being healthy we don’t really need them.

        third, probably the girl in the 1st picture is within a normal BMI range and have a normal percentage of body fat. do you know that sometimes skinny looking people have equal percentages of fat than a fat person? (i know that because when i was 50kg which is a bmi of 20 for my height i had 32% of fat… then i started eating properly BUT normally and enjoying my cake from time to time and i’m only 45kg and 20% fat).cup

        lastly, there sooooo much things wrong with looking like a kid. people want to be forever young in their minds (of course- young! not like a kid). the ones who want to have forever young bodies go to the what you called stupid things like botox/plastic surgery. people should accept their bodies don’t have to look like if they were 20, all ages have their beauty…! and NO! eat healthy is not eating low-calorie foods! omg! food is not only about calories, is about nutrients.

        i said too much lol

    • 1. Not all thin models are anorexic.
      2. “And even skinny women don’t like watching skinny women”: why do you assume this? Some don’t and some do. The same that you like seeing big women on entertainment, I rather see thin women.
      3. Being skinny is abnormal?? Sorry, but as much as you like to believe it, just because YOU are “curvy” doesn’t mean that everyone that isn’t like you is abnormal.
      4. “How can you look at a skinny figured woman and think she’s a woman”? I don’t see why you have to be big to be considered a woman. You can be small and feminine, the same way that a lot of big women aren’t feminine looking at all.
      5″HAHAHAHA”…OK, enjoy your moment of glory…

      Aside from all this, I think the girl in the picture is good looking but I don’t consider that being a bigger size equals curvy. Someone like Adriana Lima is curvier than this girl because there is a bigger difference between her hips, waist and boobs. This girl has shapely legs, but small b❆❆bs and not that much of a waist if it wasn’t for the weird position.

      • I get what you’re saying, but I disagree on your point about Adriana Lima being curvier, they actually look the same proportionately. 🙂

      • I agree with you. Lots of good points. It is a shame that women who take care of themselves are criticized more than women who don’t.

        • Yea, jjj, you’re right, it is a shame to see women who take care of themselves getting criticized, especially when the women are outside the “norm” of what people believe women that take care of themselves look like. Like the women featured in this post, they are getting criticized and insulted because they don’t look like what people think a woman who takes care of herself should look. Not all women that do take good care of themselves are going to be thin, lean and sleek, and I think Crystal Renn and the ladies featured with her are a very good example of this. People need to realize that not all women fit in the same little mold, some of us actually can’t fit in it no matter how hard we try, and it’s about time women realize we shouldn’t have to try and fit in such a limited view.

          🙂

          • And has already been stated, Daisy didn’t really present a good attitude about this either. Kinda offensive, even if I share her preference for curvy, there’s definitely a better way to put it without being insulting towards those outside of her preference.

    • Real women? So thin women are not real? So in order to promote a more curvy figure, you have to belittle those who are thinner?

      Women, yes real women, come in all shapes and sizes.

      Having a “plus size” issue is so degrading… why not feature all sizes in every issue?

      • Yep. If you are athletic, like Jessica Biel or Venus Williams, or Jennifer Garner, you’re not beautiful, you’re manly, and everyone knows a manly woman isn’t a REAL woman…

        bleh. I agree. No more labels, no more parties trying to win one demographic of women’s loyalty for their products over another company, just make products, and quit shoving [email protected] up our throats trying to make us feel good

      • Alright. this seems to be a very sensitive deal now…..so I’m a normal girl….normal as in healthy…just like all those…

        And consequently, I do stand by the thought of publicizing a “healthier” woman…healthy as in more of meat. I’m not intending to disregard any of ’em skinny body types by referring to ’em as anorexic. But the thing is with all this skinny drama, the world has started to disregard the “normal” woman body type. Even a healthy, normal bmi girl is forced to see herself as fat.

        The only threat is poses is the mental stability,that’s when normal girls are on a diet, considering themselves to be fat and getting depressed.

        Having a bit more flesh than the perfect female figure should totally not be seen as “unhealthy”, because then it raises a lot of irrational and illogical stuff.

        All I wanna say is….respect whatever shape you’re in…but simultaneously, we shall not disregard other shapes and sizes, well of course not unless they’re real overweight and really need to shed sum flesh…..
        It’s now started to take the form of a greater ego-clash than just a health or body issue.

    • Daisy, your attitude is no better than the likes of Karl Lagerfeld.

      Not every thin woman is anorexic and not every anorexic is extremely thin, believe it or not. It’s a mental illness so someone can be classified as being anorexic even though they haven’t reached the danger weight zone.

      A woman is determined, first and foremost by her genitalia, and by what is on the inside, not by the size of her b❆❆bs and booty. Zadie Smith is a real woman because she’s talented, cultured, an advocate of women’s rights and, as far as i know, has a v—-.

      I can’t wait until the world learns how to hush up skinny crazed idiots like that Karl and skinny bashers like you.

      • thank you for saying that. i get what daisy is saying but why is it that when they have a woman that’s plus size someone tends to bash thin women? i mean really? it’s hypocritical for people to say we shouldn’t bash women that are thicker or have curves and we shouldn’t but it’s okay to put down women who aren’t bless with curves? being thin doesn’t make you less of a woman because as far as i know all women of all sizes have v—-s. women should exercise but at the same time love who they are and stop putting other body types down because it doesn’t appeal to you. and by the way the model on top is beautiful and like the fact she’s comfortable in her own skin.

        • curves refer to body type, thin refers to weight. being thin or fat is a choice, determined by lifestyle.
          the basic issue here is weight, not skinny versus curvy. the two are not opposite. they can be one and the same.
          i would guess the women in that issue were all a healthy weight. whether they were healthy is another matter. i know skinny girls who hold their weight down a la kate moss with caffeine and cigarettes, and others who eat incredibly healthy and exercise regularly. likewise i could say the same for some mildly overweight people. weight is only one indicator of health and the fact that when curled up you have a wee belly roll, does not ever in any way make you fat or unhealthy.

      • Certainly, you are right. Absence of leanness not an indicator Absence ED.
        Each woman is individual, at all different tastes and ideals. Different figures in the fashion-industry is a good tendency. But it’s important don’t to forget, that we can see something, only comparing it to the opposite.

    • All healthy women are beautiful – skinny, thin, athletic, curvy, voluptuous – it’s about personal preference and acceptance by those who matter.

  2. well as a curvy women myself (size 8) I d say that this model are beautiful but some of them, such as the blonde in the front line, looks a bit over weight, not FAT, fat is something else

  3. they are normal! not plus sized (I’m sure others will argue about this, so imho)
    but bravo for V magazine but I would honestly like to see normal size women in all fashion magazines 🙂

  4. Ok…they do look beautiful, but not as beautiful as the “real” models. Most of the high fashion models are too skinny and maybe, but just maybe starving themselves, but look at Doutzen – she’s amazing. And don’t judge me, but what I think is that these girls have a little too much. A man is kinda designed to be lean. Yes, we’re all different, You can have curvy body (wider hips, etc.) … And what I mean is that if You follow a healthy diet (fruits, veggies, nuts and “superfoods” – I’m raw foodist) you will be lean (and curvy if that’s Your body type). And that “beautiful body” has nothing to do with eating crisps in front of TV. That is not happiness…Food is not happiness…

    • I totally agree with you.Eating junk food is more like a depressive habit.If you are eating healthy u will be in nice shape and maybe happier.

    • Not necessarily. We all have different structures and some people will never be lean, no matter how many superfoods they eat! We have to learn to work with what we have, instead of aspiring to some ridiculous standard of beauty that wasn’t even created by us in the first place.

    • just because you enjoy your food doesn’t mean you live to eat and for nothing else!!!!!!!!! i love my food. i have never been and here let me stress this, MEDICALLY overweight. but in fashion terms i have. I would however rate the health of my diet, including crisps chocolate cheese and chips, against any high fashion models. you people are completely deluded if you think these girls figures are achieved by healthy means. even miranda kerr who is a generally healthy girl will be nutritionally deficient because she won’t eat enough.
      how many girls have to die for that message to get through to people?? i am currently watching a friend going through this and it is heartbreaking watching someone hurt themselves and be completely oblivious to what they are doing.
      we all want to look good. i agree doutzen kroes is absolutely stunning. she is also a model in a high fashion shoot, with all the airbrushing and lighting and stylists to make her look her the way no human being EVER looks in real life. and i equally believe if she put on a stone she would still be equally stunning.

  5. I really think that the picture of all the models is very beautiful! Their bodies remind me of all the beautiful ancient roman sculptures.

    I agree with the pp who said these are not “plus sized” women. When I hear the phrase “plus sized” I think of overweight women. I don’t think they look overweight. I read somewhere recently that the average sized woman these days is a size 12. So to be fair, I think that they look like “average” sized women.

    I also wanted to disagree with a pp in that “THIS” is what a woman should look like. That statement seems just as harsh to me as what Karl L. said about women who are bigger than a size 0 or 2 not being beautiful. A woman should be able to be a size 0 or a size 12 and feel beautiful. Lets stop the “hate” completely! Skinny women are not any more beautiful than curvy women because they weigh less, and curvy women are not any more beautiful than skinny women because they weigh more! Beauty radiates from within when a woman FEELS that she is beautiful!

    • Very well put TJ 🙂 I also agree that these women aren’t “plus size”. It’s great that the magazines are putting more diverse models in their mags, but it’s not right to call women that don’t actually need to shop at Torrid, Lane Bryant, and Hips and Curves “plus sized”. If they want to feature Plus Size models, they should feature actual plus size women, not use women at the low end of what the modeling industry deems “plus size”. Hell, as a matter of fact, they should get the models from Hips and Curves and feature them, now those are some ladies that show that plus size can be sexy 😀

    • EXACTLY! Beauty is so many different things. It’s sad how in the US beauty means one thing: skinny to the point of seeing BONES, big implants, puffed trout face, fake eyelashes, tons of extensions (preferably blonde), fake tan, girdles, padded butt underwear… and they ALL look the same!

  6. They are gorgeous…but I do not think they are normal-sized models…I think a normal sized model would be someone like Kelly Brooke…
    So they are big but they have great proportions and they carry the weight all over PRETTY well…also look at the beautiful faces…wow…
    Crystal is my favourite…
    Something else…I do not really believe the ” I do not care what I look like as long as I am happy ” … I totally agree with Dovile…food is not happiness at all…thinking about food half the time you are awake is like an illness…pigging out on food and then saying..well does not matter..I am happy..that is denial..I do not think a woman can be really happy if she is not happy about her looks…looks are not all there is but they are a part of who we are as women…The hotter a woman feels,I think,the more powerful she becomes…the more confident..the more appealing…
    This reminds me of another thread about the super-model that gained so much weight..and decided to quit modelling..and people were commenting saying ” doesn’t matter..now she is happy “…even normal women get depressed when they gain weight..now imagine when this happens to the once most successful super-model in the world…losing her career which might have been her whole life…
    sad…

    • I-AGREED-EVERY-SINGLE-WORD-OF-YOURS!

      great comment, thanks!
      I haven’t read the rest, I don’t need to, cozz you have said everything to say.

    • i think people who are saying “food is not happiness” are assuming that for those of us who do think food is happiness are fat unhealthy slobs eating junk food. for me, eating a bag of doritos in front of the tv is not happiness, but the joy of cooking with family and friends, sitting around a table enjoying food and drink, conversing and laughing does equal happiness. i love to cook. i love to eat. i love the smell of food cooking, the anticipation, the process of a thoughtful well-prepared meal. good cooking is a creative process no different from painting. food, aside from being something we need to survive is also a ritual. there’s a reason why gatherings tend to revolve around consumption. food is happiness. it’s just a matter of what kind of food we’re talking about.

      that said, women come in all shapes and sizes. these “plus size” models look like average women to me. there are also heavier women and thinner women. not all thin women are anorexic and not all heavy women are unhealthy. some of us could never be thin (i’m 5’8 and was 126lbs years ago, due only to borderline starvation and hours at the gym. 138-144lbs is what my body naturally gravitates toward when i have a healthy diet.) and others can’t gain weight no matter how hard they try.

      the whole model-weight thing is kind of ludicrous. short of anorexic or morbidly obese, models should come in all the shapes and sizes that all human beings come in.

  7. These women are stunners! It goes to show that beauty really is unique- fat, curvy, thin, boyish, there are many different ways to be beautiful, and healthy.

    Having body fat does not make you ‘unhealthy’! Just because they haven’t been starving and lipo-ed doesn’t make them ‘fat mummies’ that eat bad or are depressed!

    It’s crazy how deluded and vain some of the people are on here- well, maybe not.

    And as far as “NORMAL” goes- most women in the US/UK are fatter than this, yet all they see is 15-year-old anorexics. I am naturally thin, and it even offends me! And to be honest, I was at my SKINNIEST when I was eating junk food! So keep in mind, not every average/fat person eats bad food!

  8. well the first photo is beautiful, but I have to say in all honesty that (being also this size I think? looking at the first photo) the second photo makes me want to lose weight 🙁 I don´t like it.

    • That’s exactly what the fashion/diet/beauty/excercise/weightloss industry wants you to do! Good girl!

      It’s a billion $$$ industry, and we ladies keep it running.

      • Nah, it’s not just one industry, it’s about company and product loyalty. If you can convince a group of women that you care about them/their health/their X/their Y, you can pretty much get them to buy anything – and not only for them, their husbands, kids, pets – women buy almost everything in the house hold save for cars, tools, and electronics (which unfortunately, is still male dominated and marketed towards men mostly)

        check out ‘age of persuasion’

        This is all about tapping into a market.

        • It’s true it’s not just one industry, but the beauty/health/weightloss industry is a billion dollar industry all on it’s own. But it’s a market that is CREATED that didn’t exist in that size even ten years ago. Women are spending more $$$ on their weight/hair/beauty than ever before, by far.

          The market is created by first presenting problems you didn’t know you had- hairy arms, bumpy thighs, the wrong colour hair- and showing the you the impossible ideals that are plasticized with photoshop, and then tell you the product you need to buy to ‘achieve’ that ideal.

          If all that s— worked, however, we’d all be skinny, with thicker, fuller lips/eyelashes/hair, and tan, with perfect skin, and no wrinkles. That s— doesn’t work, not the way it is portrayed in advertisements. Lipstick can make you look healthy, or sexy, but it isn’t going to transform you.

          But our culture is based on buying things to make us happy/better, so what do I expect?

          • I totally agree. If we spent our money on what ACTUALLY made us happy we’d have money in the bank, a vacation to Greece every other year, and our retirements payed off.

            Instead, we pay money for shoes, lingerie, hair MAKEUP (Hello Sephora doesn’t let you join their VIP unless you spend MINIMUM 500$ in a calendar year – ABSURD! THAT’S A CAR PAYMENT) and for what?

            The styles to change next season.

            Bring back classic beauty.

  9. I don’t believe that “every body is beautiful” I do however believe that every HEALTHY body is beautiful. There is a big difference. And these women all look beautiful and healthy which is nice to see.

    • Totally….. I think that appreciation for other kinds of beauty comes with maturity. …When I was way younger, I just htough that you had to be liek a size 00 and stuff to be pretty….not anymore…

      • I thought the same thing Jenn. I used to think that if I wasn’t a size 2, I was either too big or too thin.

        But then I realized no one agrees on anything in terms of beauty. The woman who I think is the most beautiful, others don’t. And vice versa. Men have different preferences too. Beauty is very versatile. 🙂

  10. I think they all look gorgeous. But you know what….I also think some “skinny” models are gorgeous, too. It’s offensive to hear women on this site bash other women’s figures, regardless if it’s saying someone’s “too fat” or “too thin.” Haven’t we dealt with enough misogyny from men???

    That being said, I understand that we all have preferences for how we want models and ourselves to look. What I think would be actually revolutionary is to show people with different proportions. None of these models look like “apples,” for instance. Or what about showing more women of color? Or freckles? Or zits? Or big noses? Or more athletic builds? Or, gasp, cellulite? Obviously we want to see “glamorous” people. However, I think what’s really hard for women is to see so much photoshopping, airbrushing, hair extensions, plastic surgery, etc. The underlying message to women of all shapes and sizes is that we’re not good enough to be photographed and filmed “as is,” that there’s always some “flaw” we need to fix and hide. Not every girl has a conventionally “pretty” face with a small nose, big eyes, lush lips, and prominent cheekbones. Not every girl has a defined waist, perky breasts, slim thighs, flat stomach, thin ankles….the list goes on and on. I hope all you girls reading this know that there’s something unique and special about the way YOU LOOK.

    • Also….good points from others about how we often associate weight too closely with health. There are big girls who are leading healthy lifestyles and big girls putting their hearts in a load of danger. There are also super thin girls doing the same thing. Ultimately, the healthiest people not only are eating healthy and staying fit….they are also compassionate about their own bodies and engaging in a healthy lifestyle as a form of SELF LOVE.

    • you forgot short women lol i don’t see why short women can’t go on the runway… much of them have hotter bodies and are prettier than tall women.

      but i understand what you are saying and i totally agree =)

        • if you see this comment: what do you mean by saying “not talking about short here which is different”?

          i’m really just curious because i’m not a native english speaker so I would like to know what short means to you 😉

          • Petite refers to being short (under 5’3) with a very small thin frame – such as the Olsen Twins, Eva Longoria and Nicole Richie. Someone who is just short, for example Jessica Simpson (5’2) would not be petite. Hope this helped!

          • It is possible to be petite and plus-sized. Being petite is about being short with smaller proportions (lengthwise), but that does not mean you also have to be very thin and tiny. A petite plus-sized woman will still need clothing with shorter backs, higher armholes, the elbows and knees in different places, etc. They are still petite.

    • Nay, so much truth in your post.

      Although, in my own experience, I haven’t received nearly a quarter of the criticism about my appearance from men as I did with women. I think women are harsher with other women than men. Men instinctively are attracted to most women, but women instinctively put other women down to “eliminate the competition,” if that makes sense. 🙂

      I also agree with you that in the little variety that we have in modeling, it’s always some ideal, whether size 2 or size 8. These women still aren’t what most women look like, they’re just bigger than normal models.

      I wonder if things like cellulite or pimples will ever make it into modeling. I doubt it because those things have never been considered attractive unlike larger sizes, and also we as a people are generally turned off by such things because they indicate bad genes. But who knows.

  11. I am not a fan of such models, nothing against plus size gals – but I think this is also the other extreme end of fat….. They could have chose plus sized girls who are fitter and have less stomach fat. Every doctor will tell you that stomach fat is the directly related to many illnesses including heart attacks, diabetes and cancer.
    Women should keep their waistlines below 32-inched to stay healthy and that’s a fact. You can obviously see from the girls that they have much too much stomach fat and fat rolls around their tummy. Its definitely more unhealthy than women who are slightly underweight.

    • Well, not really a “fact”, the people who say that can’t even decide on a single number. I’ve seen some say 30″ max, some say 32″ max, and others still say 35″ max. 😛

    • Thank you Dr. Tinkerbell for your fact filled post! You’re absolutely right though. Health is solely determined by the size of one’s waistline.

      • And here come the jerky, biznatchy comments where we start berating people for their opinions. Nice to see this post is following the outline of the last one… thanks Dr. Not-so-Passive-Aggressive!

        • Well if people insist on leaving misinformed drivel as comments then this response is pretty much what is deserved.

          ‘extreme end of fat’ MY ARSE.

    • here’s a fact: a 32″ waist is proportionately different on someone who is 5’2″ vs someone who is 5’11”. just like how size 8 pants would be drastically different on the two aforementioned ladies. so i don’t really think a “32-inch-waist” should be like some kind of rule.

    • Look, its not about your weight, height nor body build, its just the waist circumference. A 5′ 2″ Asian woman with a 35″ waist is no healthier than a 5′ 11″ woman with a 35″ waist although the first would probably weight less because of her smaller bone structure. Stomach fat and body fat IS the measure of your health – you have to pass get measured when you apply for jobs which requires a high level of fitness – army, navy, police jobs. They do the “pinch test” to measure belly fat and from what I can see from the pictures – those models have definitely too much fat around their belly and its not healthy!

      • I’d be interested to see where you’re getting your information from, tinkerbell.

        The rules on waist sizes are based on the “average height woman” and are not hard and fast. If you are tall with a large bone structure, you will actually have considerably less fat around your waistline at the same waist measurement than you would if you were short with a small bone structure.

      • I don’t usually make comments on here anymore but I have to correct you with regards to waist circumference. If someone has a wide ribcage, they will most likely have a wider waist, therefore adding a few inches to the waist circumference. Your overall build DOES matter.

    • I think how they are sitting is unflattering because if i were to have a picture sat like that I would in no way be pleased with the picture and yet I consider myself healthy. I think actually I am probably the same size as quite a few of these models if not a lil smaller and I look and these pics and find contentment in that. I can battle my whole life to be thin but that to me is wasted years. If it is not something i can comfertably be then why should i do it. I go to the gymn and i eat well, but my body will not budge and now I finally am happy with that. Maybe it is hard for people who are thin and always have been, to understand how someone can be plus size and healthy. Well it is simple really, you eat well and you maintain your weight, and that is that. Being toned is not nesecsary for health.

  12. I think they’re all very beautiful women. I love their complexions.

    By only problem is that some of them look a little untoned, and I like to see women with muscle tone whether a size 2 or a size 8. To me that says, “Hey, I am naturally a bigger size than most models but I still take care of myself!”

    However that’s just my preference. Maybe in “plus-size” modeling softness = more success? I don’t know. But I would still prefer to see any one of them than the extremely thin runway models like Anja Rubik. And I usually like the skinny models more.

    • Maybe they do more important things than go to the gym? Not everyone is so vain that they have to be ‘perfect’ looking. You can have fat and be healthy.

        • hey casey you being a long time visitor to this site; I’m sure you must have known about valentina. Seeing these ‘plus size’ models brought her to mind cause i know she would have had a field day making nasty and rude comments about them. Anyway do you know if she was banned from the site? haven’t seen any comments from her in ages.

          • Jen, I’m not sure. I don’t remember a Valentina. But if he/she did what you say they did then they probably either got banned, stopped visiting, or are posting under a different name. (shrug)

      • going to the gym is pretty important….

        try replacing that statement with something else:

        Maybe they do more important things than eating healthfully?
        Maybe they do more important things than working out to strengthen their cardiovascular system, build bone density, reduce stress, build strength and endurance, improve their immune system… ect..

        What you may not consider important is actually quite important to women and their health, especially women over 35.

        this isn’t only about vanity

        • There are other methods of working out than going to a gym and slaving on machines. I’d rather kill myself. I mean it. Gyms induce a state of boredom I’d rather not experience again in my lifetime.

          But in truth she’s right, I don’t know about these women but for some people their health isn’t a deciding factor in their lives. It’s about experiences. You see it in the average junkie and wealthy collectors. Some people don’t care about their health much. I don’t judge them for it. Different things are important to different people.

          • I agree. My entire life i have used my own body to be fit. No machines, thank you. I’d rather walk for 3 hours than go 30 minutes on some boring machine. If you do not want to achieve ripped but just fit and some muscle tone, your own body will help you achieve that. And, from my experience, it is healthier. So no, going to the gym is not the single absolute way of having a healthy body. Neither is eating just one type of food. I was never fat, i had the same weight for 4 years than gained some, lost it again and now i am constant again for more than one year. I think i am healthy, i feel healthy, i can do stuff with my body so just take the machines away from me. For me working out means sports. Fighting with some machine is not sport. Simple as that. Oh and one more thing: this is good for me but might as well not be good for others. I only wish people would realise this on a bigger scale: your own habbits are not perfect for everyone and if someone else choses something different it does not make them less healthier or whatever the case.

  13. I’m going to get attacked for saying this, but those women are only “normal” by our (American) standards. For the rest of the world they’re fat and unhealthy. I’m not advocating looking as skinny as VS models (many of whom look unhealthy) but I don’t think it’s ok to be as overweight as these woman are. Big is not beautiful, healthy is.

    • I agree. I don’t think they’re “normal” in regards to their size. They look overweight to me – but I just assumed that’s what “plus-size” is supposed to be (?)

    • completely agree!
      i dont see why it has to be such extremes… i know a lot of “normal” weight people who eat healthy, indulge once and awhile, and exercise regularly (dumb bells, walking, any kind of exercise)
      a lot of the models in the 2nd picture do not look attractive (their bodies) in my opinion… i don’t think that stomach rolls are attractive (and even skinny women have these)
      i do agree with the message that they are trying to say though

      • Those are not rolls. If the ladies were standing you would not see anything objectionable beyond some softness in that area and roundness underneath the belly button near. Those “rolls” appear because of the position in which they were photographed. I daresay it was done on purpose to show “flaws”. As a person who has been present for many Nude photograph settings (not myself, too ugly to do such things) I can tell you even the thinnest women with flat stomachs will create “rolls” when sitting in these positions.

        This is a not safe for work suggestion but i highly suggest you check out adipositivity.com Some of you have no idea what “rolls” look like.

        As for the issue of Europe…Their obesity rates are pretty close to ours. I think it’s about time Europeans got off the health high horse. When I lived in Europe I saw plenty of fat people.

  14. Why are they posing naked? This whole “love your body thing” is great, but the naked posing all on top of each other is ridiculous.

  15. What I like most about the second photo is that they didn’t shoot a bunch of “plus size” models and then airbrush them, they kept stuff like their stomach rolls. What I hate is when magazines show plus size models who all seem to be pear shaped, so they have somewhat flat stomachs and smaller arms and boobs. Could we please get some different body types??

  16. This discussion remind me immediately about a blog that I wrote on mySpace about another blog that I read, check it :

    A few days ago I saw this blog of a friend. I must admit I was really surprised.

    (Like many amongst us) I always disagreed with the so called beauty norms.

    We all know those norms are as good as impossible.

    We all know that the models and celebrity’s in the magazines are not real anymore.

    We all know that the models on the runway are way too skinny.

    There is already a lot said an written about this topic. There were many scandals, models who died on the runway, a lot of “we want to see it changed”.

    Let’s be real, if a skinny woman pose naked, nobody talks about it.

    If a more fuller figured woman does it, everybody say “Wow, she must have a lot of courage,..) WHY??? Only because she’s not fitting in the so called norm, that what she’s doing is not right for a voluptuous woman,…C’mon!

    Did you ever thought about the label ’Plus size’? Well to be honest I didn’t, and I’m one,… That again shows that, even we know that’s not right, how brainwashed we are that being skinny is the norm.

    So that brings me finally to the real topic of this blog, the blog of my friend.

    He makes a statement here and I truly hope that the whole fashion industry will follow his point of view.

    You’ll see he’s so right and hearing this from a man, that’s so refreshing,..

    This is then the final Blog Enjoy

    http://korporatekutie.blogspot.com/2009/10/i-really-dislike-plus-size_08.html

  17. it’s disturbing to think that this is what “plus size” is called, these just look like healthy, beautiful woman. There is nothing “plus” about them.

  18. I think it’s a great thing that people are realizing that not all people are stick thin naturally, but at the same time I think that most people do want to criticize thin people [naturally thin or girls that work at it].
    I’m personally really short, 5’1/5’2 ish, but I’ve been thin all my life. it just comes from my genes. But, I also work at it. It’s kind of sad at times that people look down on me & almost ALWAYS assume ‘oh, she never eats’ or ‘oh she has an eating disorder.’ No, i don’t, so it’s just hard for me to gain. I’m athletic but just naturally thin. Some people are like that & some people work to stay slim & healthy, so we shouldn’t also discriminate against those girls either.
    Just because the majority of women fall under a heavier weight or a larger size [i think the average size in the US is a 12, right? maybe a 10?], doesn’t mean that the rest of us are unhealthy because we’re smaller.
    I also think that it’s a bit sad to go from one huge extreme, being stick thin, to the other extreme, being ‘plus sized.’ Why can’t we find a nice happy medium? :\ it’s always about extremes…but I think that the middle is always ignored too.
    I just don’t think it’s right to glorify a larger size JUST based on that. If that’s how they are it’s fine to love it, but we can’t forget that it’s also not healthy to be bigger than your weight range. I wouldn’t want someone to tell a really thin girl it’s ok if she’s unhealthy, & I think the same should go for larger women. It’s JUST as unhealthy to starve yourself as it is to indulge within everything but then cry that people aren’t fair. Some people work really, really hard to stay fit & healthy, so I think THAT is the kind of person we should look up to. Sadly I think that most ‘real’ women are just unhealthy & we shouldn’t embrace an unhealthy lifestyle & body image.
    It’s great to feel good in your skin, which we all should, but we also can’t just be lazy & expect for people to have models that are bigger just because of that fact. A healthy weight is what I think is the best, & a healthy lifestyle.

    • I agree, I’m also petite and take care of myself. But I get comments about my weight and “not eating” just because I’m not unhealthy and overweight like the majority of people around me. It’s very annoying and makes me self conscious.

      • I’m petite and slim. I never had comments about my weight in Europe. Perhaps only some jealous glares from insecure teenagers. When I moved to North America I had women of all ages commenting on my appearance negatively and glaring at me. I really got the feeling that most women hated me for being the size I am.

        • I’m also very slim…have been that way my entire life. I know both Europeans and Americans (I live in America). Europeans think I look fine the way I am, but Americans are somehow COMPELLED to tell me that I am too thin, to ask me whether I eat or not, and to assume that when I say I eat like a normal person, that I am lying about it because I’m suffering from an eating disorder.

          I think maybe there is something cultural about it. But at the same time, some of my American friends have also been very supportive and will even defend me…mainly because I eat out with them and they’ve seen me eat, and now they believe it’s possible to be borderline underweight yet have a 2500 calorie diet.

          Anyway, all I can say is I empathize with you girls and just turn the other cheek. People who say those mean things often have insecurities within themselves and need to deal with them by putting you down or saying your thinness is due to a mental disorder. You girls have the potential to be beautiful as much as any other size, and there are men out there who will find you attractive. 🙂

          • I totally agree with you. I’ve been called “anorexic freak” since elementary school because I’ve always been naturally very thin, but now I’m a runner and I’m happy with being thin because I run with other people who are thin too (guys and girls) and we all eat A LOT, especially after hard workouts.

          • Yea i think there is a HUGE double standard.
            I mean, i love athletic girls, since i played sports all my life, & that’s a healthy weight we can all look up to. I don’t think all ‘plus sized’ girls are healthy role models! There is a huge difference between being lazy & wanting people to accept you, even if you don’t put any hard work into trying to maintain your health, & girls that truly do.
            & yea, i think there are cultural differences, since Europeans have a more fond appreciation of being slender. I think in America it’s just because everyone is already over weight [over 50 percent], so it’s just easier for them to bash us as opposed to embracing everyone.
            I just don’t think embracing this extreme in weight gain for a role model is…a good idea :\

  19. What really bothers me is that we only have “plus” size and “minus” size models…models either have a BMI of less than 18.5, or a BMI around 24 or 25 (like these models). As a person with a BMI of 21, I dont feel like I can relate to either one of these images. And truth be told, the healthiest people who also have the longest lifespan are those with a BMI between 21 and 22….where are those models??

    • Exactly!!
      We go from one THIN end of the spectrum to one HUGE end!
      There is a difference between just being overweight & ‘fat’ than healthy & average sized, you know?
      Just because the majority is overweight doesn’t mean we should encourage it just as we shouldn’t encourage underweight.

      • A BMI of 24 to 25 is not “huge”, nor is it overweight (except when one get over 25%). It’s close but medically it’s not considered overweight.

  20. I don’t think it’s fair to take Lagerfeld’s quote to mean that he is against plus sized models/women–I think his point was that it is ridiculous for lazy women to excuse themselves by attacking thin models–if Lagerfeld has Lily Allen doing his ad campaigns and is shooting these models in V magazine who are obviously not lazy or fat–It shows he is embracing plus sized healthy women. . .

  21. well they are all gorgeous and seem to have curvy and proportionate figures but i would say they are plus size – even with healthy BMI’s, they are at the larger end of the scale.
    I like some of their figures but as someone who probably has a similar figure to these girls (5ft8 US12), it doesn’t make me want to stay the same size, i still want to lose 30lb.

    • agreed, i’m in the exact same boat as you (i’m 5’10, US12). i see these ladies and now i want to lose 30lbs, but add more muscle too.

      and i know it sounds extremely shallow, but maybe if the media had more images like this out, it would actually encourage more women to lose weight. it kind of has broken my denial about what my actual shape looks like. b/c personally, i really don’t perceive this as a particularly flattering photo-shoot.

  22. ar I can’t get used to it … all those women on the 2nd pic are very beautiful, but it’s just that as we’re so used to see all those skinny-perfect sort of things in the magazines or on TV, so I strangely feel like it’s not ”normal” to have them photographed because they are too normal actually … it’s hard to explain :s
    I guess it’s just because things are only starting to change, plus-size models are note overwhelming magazines yet, so it might be why this kind of picture acted as a sort of shock for me. I’m almost ashamed to say this pic disgusts me because it’s not showing what I want to see. That’s sad 🙁

  23. it’s all so hypocrit! i mean, okay, now we’re having like a curvy-is-beautiful-fase.. but thats not fair when the VS angels also being called curvy! curvy? what the hell? curvy for me is a hourglass-shaped body, wheter your fat or skinny.
    I just think its wrong that they use only “plus” size models, or normal skinny models. They should use real people! normal people! average body with a nice face! And not jyst for one issue..
    I just don’t think this is going to help anything..

  24. I think it’s just a sticky-lose-lose situation no matter what they do.

    If they use thin models, people are upset.
    If they use heavier models, people are upset.
    If they use “normal” models, people are now complaining about what constitutes as “normal” – you’ll have the naturally thin upset, the naturally heavy upset, the very tall upset, the very short upset, and so on.
    If they use “healthy” models, then that involves taking everyone to get examined, and then probably will cycle back to the what constitutes as “healthy/normal” debate.
    If they use “attractive” models (see normal problem)

    Then if they somehow, unlikely, find a happy-size medium, then you’ll have people upset because their race/religion/sexual orientation/nationality/height/hair color/shoe size represented.

    No matter what they do, someone will be upset and/or offended.

  25. On a fashion note…
    One thing that I think is particularly interesting about modeling is….different clothing looks good on different bodies. I think that’s one of the reasons I’d like to see more variety in the modeling world. For instance, as a short and petite woman, long, flowing skirts and dresses are atrocious looking on me! Or… while my bust size and strong shoulders make halters look amazing on my top half, my best friend’s small shoulders and large bust doesn’t match well with halter tops.

    It’d be interesting to see designers work more towards making clothes for different body types, and putting girls in their clothes whose bodies “sell” the outfit.

    Honestly, I think almost anyone can make themselves look fab. The problem is that we’re often trying to fit into something that isn’t accentuating our best features!

  26. alright well i know everyone has their own idea and opinion on sizes of people’s bodies and they all think what they have to say is right and i know probly 1 or 2 people if any might read what i think lol. well me who has had issues with eating disorders but i am happy to see plus size models on covers whether they are really normal or overweight. It’s annoying that guys will see perfect photoshopped women on tv and magazines and expect that of us. thats what made me try to look perfect and i still try to specially being a cheerleader. but skinny models will probly not go away in any of our life times. so the issue is that we should all learn to love are bodies and be healthy (which will probly never happen for all women) there arent many healthy women out there i dont think in my opinion. most are either overweight. some are anorexic or bulimic. i have been on both sides and now im anorexic and bulimic and will make sure im never overweight again. but i wish we could learn to be healthy and eat right and exercise right. but thats not gonna happen……..

  27. They’re gorgeous. Crystal is so beautiful, her face is lovely. Not at women can be skinny, I think people don’t realize that. It’s hard for some to get rid of weight.

  28. It’s very disappointing how skinny Crystal is. If she and the other plus-size models in V were to be size 18s, that would mean something. But no doubt they’ll all be her size, 10/12, or smaller, and made to look even thinner.

    Even with Crystal, I’ve seen many images of her where she looks larger and therefore more attractive than this in this skinny pic, which by the way is originally from Glamour.

    • Um, she’s not skinny. I like her look, I think she looks awesome, but she is most definitely not skinny, and very attractive just like this, she doesn’t need to be larger or smaller to up her attrictiveness to me. But I think it’s wrong to call her skinny, and especially wrong to say she needs to be larger, if she gets larger she’ll be edging into the unhealthy category of weight.

  29. I think it’s a real shame that they don’t show a picture of Miss Dirty Martini, when she’s mentioned in the article. Burlesque as a genre has been great for a lot of my friends who have a variety of shapes and issues with their bodies. I’ve performed myself over the years and have seen friends from tiny size 4s (US 0) up to fantastically wobbly size 20+ on stage. Believe me, bigger girls can be fantastic tasslers and even (as with Miss Dirty Martini) graceful en pointe!

    I’ve had a bit of a messed up relationship with my body over the years. I’ve always been overweight and, at times, bulimic, but these days I eat a very balanced diet and exercise regularly.

    Do you know what? I don’t want to be thin. It’s not because I hate girls who are thin, or think that anyone who’s a size 0 is anorexic, but because it’s not how I can ever imagine seeing myself. I do like seeing pictures of plus size models, but largely because most of these girls have measurements very similar to my own and it makes me feel good.

    I do want to lose a bit of weight, but very largely for the sake of my fertility (PCOS) and it’s a pain in the backside in terms of my wardrobe.

  30. Oooooh! I love it! I think they are the most beautiful womens. I adore this type of body. And i’m happy to see then on the covers. God bless the human being who has the ideea and the courage to do that. 🙂

  31. They’re beautiful, too bad that this may aswell be called the freak issue. The fact that they have to their own issue shows something. Why can’t we just have a nice range of body sizes all the time, then this stupid size argument would end, and media will actually reflect reality.

  32. Ok wow! Models are suposte to be fu***in skinny.
    A fat woman bein on a cover of Elle or somthing its like, seeng Paris Hilton make an OSCAR winning movie lol.
    Fashion and all those lines, thin girls/woman have to model it. It has been like that always, and its not going to change.Twiggy, Adriana Lima, Kate Moss, Marissa Miller. Skinny is in sorry. Not being mean, but thin females work it better and theyre body is made for fashion.

    • Can you please post a link to this modeling rule book you seem to have? I wasn’t aware they “have” to be anything. Saying it will never change is obviously wrong considering this post is showing a group of beautiful successful models posing in a magazine who aren’t twigs.

  33. It makes me super angry when people assume they are “unhealthy” just because they are not super slim. First of all in my opinion these women are NOT fat. I think a few of them have killer bodies. Also there are lots of skinny women out there who eat like s— and never work out. Alternately there are lots of women out there with fuller figures who eat healthy, low fat, high veg diets and workout lots. It’s about set point people. We can’t really deviate drastically from where we are meant to be weight wise without serious effort and thus health consequences. People that automatically assume these women are “unhealthy” are actually promoting disordered eating in my mind.

    That said I also think that there’s nothing wrong with being whatever size as long as it’s healthy. I am willing to bet these models are actually “healthier” than the majority of runway models out there who quite often live on coffee and cigarettes. This is a generalization, but it’s important to remember that less than 1% of the population is able to maintain a “normal” models bmi, WHICH PS IS GENERALLY BELOW THE HEALTHY BMI RANGE!!! I’m also willing to bet that almost every one of the women in this picture have a healthy bmi. Maybe one or so doesn’t, but hey we are all made differently.

    I also would like to see a range of women represented in the media, but this is a start I think. My body type is somewhere in between these ladies and ‘normal’ models, it would be nice to see that out there one day:) But I have to say I feel better about myself seeing these women than I do seeing only skinny women, cause no matter how much I diet I will never be model skinny. Conversely, if I was a naturally skinny woman I would be REALLY offended by the comments such as “that’s what a real woman should look like”.

    A “real” woman is every one of us posting here, love yourself ladies, you’re worth it, no matter what size or shape you are!

    • I strongly disagree with you, Cat. Modeling is about showing the clothes. Models are like walking clothes hangers. If the fabric is getting stuck in their fat rolls, the clothing will not be shown well. I am all for being healthy, but in the media and in modeling, skinny is the only way to go.

      • If a designer can’t design clothes that look good on anything but a clothes hanger, then they are pretty crap.

        Designers choose skinny models because its EASY to design for a very androdgenous body. it takes skill to design for a curvier, more average female body.

      • I’m plus sized, why would I want to be shown clothes on “clothes hangers”? If I wanted to see how the clothes will look on “clothes hangers”, I will look at them on the rack in the store, but if I want to see an approximate representation of how the clothes look, I want to see them on models that closely resemble my own body type.

        And I agree with apricotmuffins.

      • Yes, modelling is about showing clothes, but designers have become lazy in using incredibly thin, shapeless models.

        The models of the 1950s likely had even smaller waists than today’s 6ft rake thin girls, but had curves and were considerably shorter. Clothes shouldn’t be designed for a hanger; the skill is in designing clothes for a woman.

        P.S. They hardly have “rolls of fat”!

  34. I really hope this will jump start the “Marilyn Monroe esque” decade again.
    I love curves.
    & this just brings a big smile to my face knowing that maybe fashion designers & people in general would start accepting and admiring beautiful curves.

    P.S. Maybe they can start making clothes for the hourglass shapes like in the 1950’s again?K,thanks 🙂

  35. ok why are fat people trying to pose now?
    I really think modeling should stick to thin models, they work it better.
    Thin has always been in fashion, jus because there are so much fat—es in USA dont mean they have to put them on a cover of a magazine. ahhhh please dont haahh.
    Really Dont. its not sexy!

        • Well I understand where she is coming from. The USA is making a move towards introducing larger woman to magazines since the mass majority there is overweight and unhappy because of it. Its a way for the magazines to make larger people feel better about themselves. I think average sized girls are best cause they are in the middle. I don’t really like the way this comment was formulated tho… she could’ve said it in a better way. I think larger people are probably offended by this.

          • Seriously, it’s to get the most money from as many people as you can, and the demograohic to hit is people in that “plus sized” category. I have to agree with Aims, not saying I like the idea… because its misleading. Acting as though they are interested in ‘real beauty’ when they want real big profits…

    • Not trying to be mean, sorry if i offended some of you. But im speaking the truth. Fat People should not do fashion modeling. It just doesnt look good, an you are making other countries laugh at us, bcuz fat rolls are on Elle or omething else. SORRYYYYYYYY! SKINNY MODELS ARE MADE FOR IT, THEY JUST ARE. no more fatness pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeEE

      • Truth? TRUTH? the truth is you seem like a very sad individual, who has some issues. Your opinion is nothing more than brainwashed parroting of what the media has paraded in front of you. It bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever.

        Tough luck sister, fatness is here to stay. It always has been here, people have been fat since the dawn of time, and there will always be fat people.

        Skinny people arent at any more of an advantage than a well built person throught evolutionary history. The opposite has been true.

        • Half marks.

          There’s no evolutionary advantage to being truly “fat” – some amount of physical fitness (not fatness) has long been required throughout history and prehistory. One need only look at environmental factors to see that this is so.

          However, there /is/ a large survival advantage in carrying around some extra body fat – it is useful as an energy reserve in lean times.

          As far as “fashion modelling” goes, I honestly wish I could recall who said that “Fashion is a form of ugliness so hideous it must be changed every six months.”

          • Jon, I must say that I found the last part of you comment quite hilarious.

            I was looking at a website that listed the highest payed/most successful high fashion models and I found most of them to be completely, well, ugly. I couldn’t believe they were being paid millions.

            But that’s fashion for ya.

  36. You know, I’ve read most of these comments here (I say “most” – I feel impelled to respond, and the impetus picked up before I finished reading…) and I’d like to weigh in.

    I’m sure my ideas of what can be considered “physically beautiful” are slightly unconventional, but so be it. Let us begin:

    1) I honestly think that much of an individual’s idea of what is and what is not beautiful has a good deal to do with their own self-image. I have /never/ had a BMI that would be considered “healthy” – and I don’t consider BMI to be an accurate measure of health anyhow, due to variation in build and genetics.

    At twelve years old (I hit puberty and got my size early,) I was 6’1″, 225#, and ran about 11% body fat. By the time I graduated and enlisted, I was 6’3″, 240#, and about 10%.

    “Fighting weight” for me ran 275#/9%, with a peak of 288#/12%.

    I’m currently 284# at an estimated 18-20% – and I’d like to get back down to 240# (I’m dealing with a lot of old injuries that make it difficult to move most days. I still have plenty of strength when I need it, but my endurance is shot, and there are days where I feel like I’ve been poured in cement when I try to move about…)

    Per BMI, I was considered “obese” at fighting weight. This was with a 32″ waist, a 28″ thigh, a 19″ collar, a 52″ chest, and the body fat of 10% or less (per quarterly assay – I had to get the assay done quarterly to stay in the Air Force. Being overweight, my body fat had to be below 15% to get a weight waiver.) BMI is not RPT /not/ an accurate assessment of health. Even at my current weight, most /MDs/ can’t believe I mass what I do. Save my orthopaedist – he’s seen X-rays of me, and has no trouble believing I top twenty stone. I can literally say “I’m not fat, I’m big-boned” – and my bones are /solid/.

    I have always not only been attracted to short women, but to short and stocky women. “Stocky” in this case means at least fairly muscular. It can be well-padded muscle (I’d prefer it,) but that does entail a good deal of physical strength. I find that very few women can pull of “skinny” well – at least in my eyes (Rosamund Pike is an example of someone who can. I’m not sure why, but she does look good to me – despite the fact that my first impetus would be to feed her.) I may no longer be in a farm state, but I’ll never stop being a farmboy at heart.

    2) I find it interesting that so many women are out there trying to be something they are not – then they complain when men aren’t what they would consider to be “genuine.” Ladies, cosmetics is a multi-/billion/ dollar /per/ /annum/ industry, and for what? I’ve long felt (and found) that if a woman looks good to begin with, she’ll still look good first thing in the morning. If she doesn’t, there’s not much that can help (once again, IMO.) A woman just out of the shower generally has all of the colouration and scent she needs to be truly attractive – why mask it? Why throw off your colouration? Besides, cosmetics still taste funny, and that can ruin a mood…

    3) “Plus” sizes? I’d be considered a “plus” size myself – so my demanding that a woman lose weight (when she – much like my wife – would be in about the same BMI bracket as I am…) would be hypocrisy. My wife considers herself overweight – but my BMI is higher than hers, neither of us can float well (which speaks of a higher concentration of bone structure and muscle mass vice adipose tissue,) and we both have a good deal of physical strength – more than you’d think, looking at either one of us (Mum keeps telling me I should take up caber tossing. My wife would probably do quite well at it as well – despite being a foot shorter than I.) Perhaps it’s just me – but most women who wear less than a size 10 just don’t get my attention. OK – I’m an oddity.

    4) Curvy? Sure – women should look like /women/, not pre-adolescent male marathon runners with mammary glands. I like to see small women dressed in my clothing running about the house, but you shouldn’t be able to button the collar of my shirt about your waist (because that’s just /too/ damned thin! At least, it is to me.)

    Ladies, you all come in different shapes and sizes because there are /men/ out there who like ladies in all different shapes and sizes. Be patient, you’ll find someone who enjoys looking at you just the way you are. I tell my wife that, she tells me I’ve lost my mind, then we just kind of dissolve into each other after a chuckle. I’ll take it – I figure we’re doing something right…

    JDK

    • JDK,

      What a wonderful set of comments. It was a real breath of fresh air to read them.

      I’m lucky enough to have a partner who, like yourself with your wife, thinks that I’m beautiful enough as I am (although he rather enjoys watching me dress up for a night out). If a man (or woman) doesn’t think their partner is good enough as s/he is, then they’re not someone worth spending time on (to be frankly honest).

      All the best to you and your wife over the holiday season.

      SS

      • Thank you for the wishes – and consider them returned in spades!

        I’ve long been called “unconventional,” and I really don’t see any reason to change (if you knew more about me, the forces that shaped me, and how I’ve become what I am to-day and what I’ve gone through to get here, you’d probably wonder that I can seem as well-adjusted as I do to begin with!)

        I have to admit that; while she still “paints herself” rather more than I’d like, she’s become rather more comfortable with the skin she’s in and paints it a good deal less than she did ten years ago when we were first married (I had a thirty-year habit to work her out of. WE are unconventional – there are seventeen years between us, for starters.)

        A night out, for us, is going somewhere to get dinner we don’t have to cook and hitting the bookstores (we’re both bibliophiles. We could probably open a branch library around here, if I actually catalogued everything. We cover most topics, and various genera of fiction with an emphasis on Sci-Fi.) We’re both fairly simple people with complex pasts – she’s medically retired from SCPD, and I’m medically retired from the Air Force.

        @Aims, above – Consider this: most women who would be considered “overweight” (it’s entirely possible to be both “overweight” and “healthy” – “overweight” is a hideously overused word. I put it in the same class as “tragic” – horribly misused and overused by the press…) aren’t necessarily depressed because they’re overweight, but due to the lack of acceptance of a solidly-built body type. Note the changes we are seeing in clothing these days – various body types aren’t being fully represented (I still wear issue for a reason – I like the way it fits. I was so happy when BDU pants hit the surplus market – I was tired of altering my pants that I was forced to buy about four sizes overlarge for myself so I could pull them up past my knees…) in the market.

        Much of this – at least in this area – I consider due to the expansion of the Asian demographic. NB: I have nothing whatever against Asian people (particuarly Asian women – I dated a couple before I got married!) and I have no trouble with people wanting clothing that fits them. However, when was the last time you saw an Asian woman with a nice round bum? So, good luck finding pants that can accommodate a nicely-formed /tochis/.

        If you do wear a “plus” size (say, US12-14 or larger,) there is an attendant problem there as well. Most designers tend to assume that if you wear clothing that large or larger, you’re also going to require a brassiere with a cup size represented in the centre third of the alphabet. While there are women like that out there (my kid sister, for instance, wears a 36H. My daughter-in-law I estimate at about a 38F,) not all “plus-sized” women are going to be terribly busty. For all of my wife’s size, she’s wears a B cup – which means that she has trouble filling out her shirts properly – since they’re usually designed for someone much larger.

        Figure that she belongs in a bracket that is awfully under-represented in the clothing world – and she’s not trying to find high-fashion stuff! Neither of us could be considered a “fashion plate” by any stretch of the imagination (she’s usually in jeans and a decent top, usually button-up or pullover; while I’m most often seen in black or blue BDU pants and a button-up shirt in some shade of blue, darker grey, or black. I tend to get dirty, and need clothing that doesn’t show that straight away.)

        I certainly would have trouble finding more common clothing to fit my lower body – my suit and my tuxedo pants were tailored to fit up past my thighs (and I’ve built down significantly!) since I didn’t feel like doing it myself.

        @SpecialSundae – just out of curiousity, what colours do you tend to wear when you go out, and what is your own colouration like? My wife could probably be described best as a “dirty blonde” (which I do like,) and she tends to look good in richer blue colours. Of course, /most/ women seem to wear black well, although most guys do not (I do, but I’m also a night critter.)

        “Most women look good when they first wake up, great when they’re sleeping, but they’re at their very best when they just step out of the shower.” -Me.

        • Um, Asians are the reason sizes are getting ‘smaller’? You know that a size 6 today would be a size 10 over 30 years ago.

          Sure.. America isn’t getting bigger.. everyone else is getting smaller!

          check stats from 30 years ago…people were VERY different, but then again, a simpler time…sigh… stupid car-oriented society!! Damn you GM!!!

          • Not so much “smaller” – “less curvy.”

            “Vanity Sizing” in clothing is a separate issue entirely. Note that I was mentioning specific features (or lack thereof?) in the Asian demographic that, when catered to, would cause clothing to /not/ fit other demographics well – even given wearing the same size!

            Which is something I still can’t fully understand. When I go buy a suit, I need at least five numbers (waist/inseam/chest/sleeve/neck.) Women have – or are supposed to have – more curves than me (and delightfully so!) So howcumzit that women’s clothing can be distilled down to a single number for size, even though four are commonly used to describe their form? (Height/bust/waist/hips.)

            I’ll not argue with you on people having changed in the last thirty years – I’ve watched it happen! People will continue to change over the next thirty – “change” is the only “constant” in the Universe for people in general (leaving aside, of course, physical constants.)

            I don’t have a problem with change /in/ /se/ – what I have a problem with is when “change” leaves people behind because it doesn’t account for things that cannnot be changed without surgery or other drastic measures (ax work? No, thanks.)

            Even a change in demographics of an area is normal. But just because (for the sake of argument) an area is increasing its Asian or Latino population significantly, there is no reason to forget the other subsections of the population who are still there – Caucasian, Black, or otherwise. We’re all physically different – and that does need to be accounted for.

            As I said in the beginning, the “vanity sizing” (which you tangentially referred to) is a different phenomenon altogether than what I’m referring to above.

            JDK

        • Jon,

          Royal blue sounds great with “dirty blonde” hair. I’ve got dark hair and moderately pale skin (although golden rather than pink toned) and tend to wear a lot of jewel tones. I’m not shy of colour, so I wear rich reds, greens, purples etc as well as black, cream, occasionally white with patterns. It all fits in rather well with my vintage aesthetic.

          My problem with being a “plus” size is the reverse of your wife’s, in that a lot of the clothing out there seems to assume that my underbust measurement will be a lot larger than it really is. I’m about 31-32″ on the waist (even after Christmas shockingly) and 43″ on the bust, so the assumption is made that I must be about 39″ under-bust when I’m only about 35″. I have to have things made specially to fit.

          SS

          • So you run a larger cup and a smaller band, not the other way about? Still a problem tho – gotta alter clothes to fit (if not make them from whole cloth.)

            She’s mainly German, Swedish, and Irish – so no “gold-toned” skin. At least she’s not phosphorescent Irish – but she always wears SPF30, so she doesn’t pick up much colour. (Me, I wear SPF Squat. It’s just a hassle – and that’s why I’m dark for a Scot.) Cobalt blue is a colour we both agree on – me mum’s always pillaging thrift shops to find us cobalt blue glassware (it was the “trim colour” at our wedding, and what all the bridesmaids wore.)

            Relatively small ribcage tho, given the waist size. What are you about the hips? Just curious (38-30-42 is a nicely-proportioned model to me, and fairly close to my wife as well. Further Deponent Sayeth Not – I have become accustomed to sleeping indoors…)

  37. @Casey, WRT your “Jon, I must say that I found the last part of you comment quite hilarious.

    I was looking at a website that listed the highest payed/most successful high fashion models and I found most of them to be completely, well, ugly. I couldn’t believe they were being paid millions.

    But that’s fashion for ya.”

    I agree. Who sez it makes sense? Who said, “There’s no accounting for tastes”? Quite true.

    For instance, one of the most attractive erotic models I’ve ever seen stands 5’5″, and measures 38-30-42. I love those proportions – and I can tell from looking at her that it’s a solid weight.

    I’m not sure I want to know which models are most highly paid. After all, Kate Moss became a “supermodel” – and I’ve got bigger b❆❆bs than she does (and I’m a guy!) If I can drop you all the way through one leg of my pants, I think you’ll want to see about picking up a little weight. Perhaps it’s just me.

    I like curves! I like legs that look like legs, not articulated wooden dowels! I don’t mind solid shoulders on a woman, it shows that you’re not afraid to do work. For similar reasons, I don’t have a problem with scarring, either (not “body modification” scarring, but the sort of scarring you pick up just from living your life. I wear my various scars as badges of honour – they’re the medals I’ve gotten from not “riding the pine” all my life.)

    Maybe I’m just odd. I don’t care for the current “fantasy” women – and skinny broads are a dime a dozen out here. I prefer “real” women – women that look like they don’t spend every waking moment not working in the gym and eating a stick of celery once a week (whether it’s intentional or genetic, skinny doesn’t do anything for me…) are a dime a dozen out here anyhow. To paraphrase, “You can take the boy off of the farm, but you can’t take the farm out of the boy.” Gimme a woman who looks like she can do some work and who doesn’t mind getting out and living, and I’m a happy guy!

  38. You know what …I think it’s a shame that women thick or thin are scrutinized. Why are you attacking each other? In my personal opinion – skinny models look good in the clothing – absolutely. Kate Moss looks great in a magazine! I often wish I could spend a day in her shoes. But at the end of MY day I’m glad someone like Crystal Renn posed the way she did. What’s wrong with it? Again in my opinion – the “real women” as some of you have put is really more of what Jon described – the girl that doesn’t spend hours in a gym and eating celery. Why don’t we just stop bringing each other down and accept who you are. I think that’s the point of the above picture of all the models together. Accept yourself. You’re gorgeous!!!

    • Precisely what I was saying earlier. “There are women of all shapes and sizes because there are men that enjoy all shapes and sizes.” The women I’ve spent time with wouldn’t make it into fashion magazines (they’re too short and too stocky,) but I happen to enjoy that! So, what’s the problem?

      There are men who like “stick people” – fine. Just so that people don’t forget that /not/ /everyone/ happens to like that shape, so there’s no reason for it to become a physical norm.

      As far as “healthy” BMI and “average” weight – the BMI scale is something I consider suspect (there are too many potential variables to make the thing work,) and an “average” is just that – a calculated mathematical value derived from the measurements of a given population.

  39. I don’t know why you guys consider her a “regular women” look at her face. She’s gorgeous. Stunning with refined bone structure and a beautifully proportionate body, thicker or not. She’s definitely more gorgeous than a 99% of the population and just because she’s a bigger form of beauty doesn’t make her anymore relatable. Unless you’re 5’10 with an hour glass figure at a size 12 with a perfectly symmetrical face.. But then you’d probably be one of her peers if you were. I get so sick of people talking about plus models as fit they’re implented to make the average women feel better about herself. Their looks is just an unattainable and a thin models.

  40. i’ve always thought bigger girls were more attractive and more feminine. I’ve had a lot of (curvy) girlfriends who thought that skinny was pretty and fat is unattractive. Oh well. I wonder if the grand consensus will change anytime soon.
    Where can i order a hard copy of this magazine. I am searching for it now.

  41. I am glad that they are starting to use regular sized people on the runway and in many fashion magazines,however, I don’t agree with some women who they call “plus size” they look perfectly fine and if you are going to call them plus sized then shouldnt the others be called “under sized” when you can see more rib that a little fat. Over 1/2 of the advertisements in magazines target weight loss and with plastic surgery and everything being so popular we are turning into an unhealthy world. For example, I admired how comfortable Kim and Chloe Kardashian were with their body until they lost so much and started promoting diet pills. Why are we obsessed with being a 0 or size 2 why not a 7 or 9. This is the first time someone on the cover looks healthy. !

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